I promised eventually explaining why I blame atheism for much of the evil in the world. “God” has surprised me by inspiring me to write this right now.
I blame atheism for fundamentalistic Christianity. Which means, everything you say is wrong with fundamentalistic Christianity, I can throw right back at the atheists. And it’s not their fault, I didn’t say it’s their fault. Humans commit evil by their very nature, by the nature of imperfect communication. We misunderstand one another because we don’t even try.
Borrowing a comment by a “Darren King”, who tackles an evangelical that claims Brian McLaren is not preaching the gospel:
David,
Are you an evangelical? If so then your understanding of the gospel is in the minority- both in terms of absolute numbers in the world today, and in terms of historicity.
If you are an evangelical, then you have to realize that your particular understanding of the gospel has been around for several centuries- at the most.
That leaves out 1600 years of Christian history to account for. What do you do with that? So you simply assume that everyone previous to the 16th century was wrong- but somehow you and your segment of the Church have got it right?
Seriously, does that seem reasonable to you?
This summarises the mistake made by fundamentalists and some anti-theists alike. The question then becomes “so what is the gospel?”
Brian McLaren’s latest book doesn’t even discuss the atonement of sins and the resurrection. There is so much more to the gospel than that. I also intensely dislike it when people claim Paul has corrupted the teachings of Jesus. That is not true. You have corrupted the teachings of Paul by taking them out of context.
The whole idea of the atonement of sin is targeted at ancient Judaism. Their culture had serious “sacrificial-cult” leanings back in the day. They had laws like the fundamentalistic Christians have these days, and these laws cause sin. And these laws cause death. These laws hurt humanity. Badly. In that context, Paul taught that we have been set free from sin by the ultimate sacrifice. Jesus, as a concept, was the ideal human, he was the very essence of what humanity likes to call “God”. And we killed him, because we are so stuck in our rules.
It did not take long to realise that Jesus will live forever, because he epitomises what humanity is all about. We are his hands, his feet, we are the “body of Christ”. Jesus will never die, as long as humanity exists, because Jesus is humanity. If you think “Jesus” is a swear word, replace it with “Bob” or “FSM”, I don’t care, as long as you understand me, please try. Don’t let swear words get in the way.
OK, so what happened? The atheists claimed “there is no God”. But the Christians, they experience God, the living God, Jesus, who lives in all of us, because we are all human. We all have passion. (Are there animals with passion?) They tell the Christians that they are wrong, that God does not exist. And they “steal” all the goodness out of Christianity. They demonstrate over and over that you don’t need God to be moral, in the mean time, morality is God. What happens, is all this warring leaves a burnt-out wreck of Christianity, that is modern fundamentalistic atheism. By stealing all the good out of Christianity and making it “atheistic”, the fundamentalistic Christians grab onto the only thing they have left, that the atheists haven’t stolen: pre-modernistic supernatural beliefs.
It’s sad. And I blame the atheists. Because the atheists don’t know how to communicate. Fundamentalistic modernists. Stupid, stupid people, purely because they think pre-modern people are stupid. They do not heed the advice of the splinter and the beam.
So let’s put the Gospel back in Christianity. Give the Christians what they should have kept all this time. Give them back Jesus. Jesus is a living reality. Don’t steal him for yourselves, you atheists, because you are causing hell on earth. You are causing fundamentalism and hate and suffering and murder and the Taliban and 9/11, and… Hehe. Yea, I just did that.
What would Jesus do? Jesus spoke in hyperbole. It’s a fucking figure of speech people. Critical thinking skills. Please. Deal with passion. It’s human. Live passionately, and you will have found God. At that point, you can start learning more. God is not a destination, it’s a journey. Life is a journey. Nature is a journey. The Fucking Spaghetti Monster is a journey. May you be touched by his noodly appendage, it may change your life!
And so I add my voice to the cacophony that is humanity, and I have life, and life in abundance, because I have passion. Hell, you can even find value in Mel Gibson’s movie, if you can get past the worship of gore and violence. Below all that madness we have piled on top of Jesus, lies the very heart of humanism: compassion.
24 responses so far ↓
1 Hugo // Nov 27, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Oh, I wanted to add… the Jews seem more Christian than the fundamentalistic Christians, who are still stuck with a sacrificial-cult syndrome.
The evangelical Christians have not learned from Peter, who learned that the Gospel is for everyone, not only Jews. They are still converting people to ancient Judaism, but only the very worst part of ancient Judaism, before they share the Gospel. How many evangelicals start with the statement this is the good news: that men are sinners
Pre-modernistic sacrificial cult mentality. They still haven’t accepted the salvation provided by Jesus. They still need Paul’s message. *sigh*
Translating “we are sinners” to modernspeak: humans are never perfect, never will be. We are part of a chaotic process. We evolve chaotically and our culture is chaotic. Get used to it, embrace it, live it, passionately. Care for one another. For our consciousness is precious, “sacred” if you want, and it would be a big shame, it would be hell, if we were to wipe one another out.
2 Hugo // Nov 27, 2007 at 7:38 pm
About the Gospel: if you can summarise the gospel in a short little comment, what you have is modernistic fundamentalism. Don’t ask me to do so. Instead, walk the road with me, and learn. I am only human, and I will make many, many mistakes, but I will try my best to teach you what I believe the “good news” is.
In the mean time, I will leave you with the two greatest commandments, translated to atheist:
First: have appreciation and thankfulness, a sense of wonder and mystery, and have meaning in life
Second: be compassionate towards everyone and everything
I believe there is a zeroth commandment as well:
You have been given a mind: rationality, consciousness and self-awareness. For God’s sake, use it! Else you are nothing but an animal, and you deny your own humanity.
3 Timothy Mills // Nov 27, 2007 at 9:15 pm
Against my own inclination, I have to say I enjoyed this post, Hugo.
I disagree with some of the claims you make - particularly regarding atheism, and if I weren’t neck-deep in thesis work now I’d rant passionately back at you, but in a spirit of love and sharing ;).
But for now, just know that you caught my attention. I disagree, I hate the misconceptions you are wantonly throwing out there, and I can’t wait until I can join you in a tantrum or two. Just to stir things up.
Yippee!
4 Hugo // Nov 27, 2007 at 9:32 pm
Thanks Tim. I will enjoy that very much.
This is indeed hyperbole, and I am aware of the evil stereotyping I might be reinforcing, however, I will undo all the damage. I feel I have already collected my fair share of “credit” to allow me this post.
This is all a journey, and people have to understand the context and go to some trouble to understand what I’m trying to say, before communication is possible.
I can’t wait for that tantrum. Can’t we just leave our studies and get on with full-time “ministry”?
God is sending me to the local pentacostal church, that they may learn what life in abundance means. I pray God will provide me with all the necessary support, for I know Satan will set up very many traps. Satan will try his best to prevent the success of the mission God has called me for.
Here on my blog, there is very much melodrama lately. You must forgive the melodrama, and understand the context. You are witnessing my very own Indian War Dance. Spiritual warfare will increase tenfold on this campus. Demons will be fought and exorcised. Hopefully. In the name of Jesus. If it is God’s will, Jesus will save my town from demonic influences.
Amen!
5 Hugo // Nov 27, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Oh, and if you want to claim I’m wrong in talking about “the evil committed by atheism”, we will have to discuss what “evil” is, first!
6 Negate // Nov 28, 2007 at 12:28 am
Atheism exposed another way for adult humans to cope with there lives. It commits evil in the sense that it wants to destroy religion for its own selfish reasons, without thinking of future generation that may need guidance. Atheism can be turned around as a viable choice for a way of thinking that benefits your self development, motivation and your happiness tenfold.
Don’t throw away atheism because it has caused some evil
Just like religion should not be thrown away because if its little evils
Improvement of the understanding of both subjects means we are on our way making a better humanity at each stage of life.
Atheism can be positive, its saved my life, thx god
7 Hugo // Nov 28, 2007 at 12:37 am
And it saved mine too, but it was Jesus who helped me achieve atheism. And now I’m jumping back into the fray, having since discovered that Jesus is indeed God
- having been the one that provided me with my salvation…
Sorry again guys. Indian War Dance. Remember.
8 Negate // Nov 28, 2007 at 12:53 am
what salvation? the salvation the he had a positive influence in your life. Then i have allot of jesus’s and gods in my life
9 Hugo // Nov 28, 2007 at 12:56 am
In my case? Salvation from Hell. Fundamentalism was my Hell. It was death, and weeping, and the gnashing of teeth. Jesus set me free from that, he was my salvation. And there’s nothing supernatural to it, if by supernatural you mean what most people mean with supernatural.
10 Hugo // Nov 28, 2007 at 12:58 am
(Most people use “supernatural” to refer to stuff that “doesn’t exist”, so by its very definition, hehe… y’know.)
11 Hugo // Nov 28, 2007 at 8:59 pm
A long and passionate tirade about the damage certain strains of intolerant atheism is causing, can be found in the comments here:
http://prometheusongebonde.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/bybelse-dwaalleer-of-bloot-rasionele-denke/
Witness the blindness of the person that calls himself “Savage”. He sees passion, he thinks “moron”. Not knowing I might even be an atheist, providing him with insight he is free to take. Understanding of human culture. He refuses to understand, for he wants to believe he was right all along, just like the creationists. Can you see why I call him a fundamentalist? He is blind.
Be careful of the beam in your eye. Be careful. It will get us all killed.
12 Hugo // Nov 28, 2007 at 9:00 pm
That is why you don’t want to call yourself an atheist in South Africa.
All the good people call themselves Christians. So poor atheism is heavily stigmatised by the few intolerant individuals who fly that banner in order to offend.
13 Dear Atheist // Nov 29, 2007 at 12:29 am
[...] Recent Comments The Evil committed by Atheism: [...]
14 gerhard // Nov 29, 2007 at 1:19 am
hugo, you need to chill dude.
you really are starting to come across a bit strong. . probably stress.. chill…
i think what you should say a atheist with a fundamentalist belief of religion.
not that he is a fundamentalist , he just views all religion the same as a fundamentalist religion.
ok, now for opinion… get ready to be offended, i will be talking on behalf of atheists, fellow atheists, if you disagree please correct me, however keep in mind that i am talking here on a philisophical level. I’m not really into arguing the finepoints but i will argue ‘major’ ones
(apparently)
they have real passion and you don’t. you kick and scream every now and then. but you really don’t come though for the rest of us.. you don’t just pick and choose what you believe from the bible but when it comes down to it you pick and choose morality aswell.
Hugo, atheists feel theists are brainwashed.. its not that they can’t break their brainwashing , but many people arent exposed to something or another that causes it (think of it like what happens to Winston Smith in 1984 (george orwell) ).. its kinda like breaking away from a loop, because some weid glitch stopped them from ever questioning any ‘athority’. I also think, many atheists see ‘your kind of’ dribble’(no offence) as no problem and tolerate it very well. (we are however very sensitive) But, In our case , we are not worried about the liberal or moderate directly. we are worried about those guys you allow to do what they do by default even while knowing its wrong. This is the gripe with liberals or moderates (ie. harmless christains/theists/zebbuddists, muslims) is that they allow it
(think golden compass , think the effect your fundamintalist(evangelical) christian upbringing had on your actual formative years? how much of an effect did your hell have on you? how much on others ? how many people like you who arent gonna escape that hell? why dont you go there for a change? why do you think these guys have the right to do what they do? ok. i am thinking you probably dont think this is right. It isn’t moral to have the light of knowledge and understanding removed from your world by the oppression like this. now, i know you have found a new christanity ‘lite’ , where you are trying to merge ideas of the new age movement , christianity and atheism. you need to realise tho, that just because jesus of the christains is talked up doesnt mean it is so, you talk about lables , but jesus is just like one of those, even your definition of god.. you are just labeling a whole bunch of (what you see as) good things into one big pile and using the label god.
with jesus , the same. nothing i have read about jesus has ever hinted at him / his ideas any more valueble than that of my contemporarys , or mythos of the past or pieces of ‘mega awesomeness of writing’ fiction. (think of a broad spectrum of writing , douglas , outerlimits, nietzsche, dawkins,sagan)
It actually offends me when you say things like ‘you have found god’ etc. not because i don’t like the idea of a god.. but of how much you are degrading those things you are putting together with the label of god. It feels like you cheapen them induvidually. And when you keep praising jesus, it feels like you are doing the same.
It reduces the meaning of everything else. doesnt it make you feel shallow to call all this ‘goodness’, ‘compassion’, ‘beauty’ and whatever else … god. Doesnt it also make you feel a bit shallow to reduce everything to jesus?
Just think about this, isnt it shallow to assume a thing like god if there isnt a reason to?
btw, completely off the point, i would like to see you do a post of timothy leary vs merry pranksters
I would like to see you emerse yourself to the world they discovered (not the drugs , but the result of them on them). investigate who these people were, what they did.
i think you will see why i am bringing this into this convo.
15 Hugo // Nov 29, 2007 at 2:13 am
I hear you gerhard. And you catch me while I’m down, as I just drained myself elsewhere. So you’re getting the cold rationalist now. And this is going to be bad, because the passion you witnessed was going to be useful.
The whole point of this blog was really psyching myself up and preparing myself for taking on Shofar’s teachings. I was really just explaining to you what I’m up to, in a way that I am flexible between worldviews. I know of the great evils of Christianity, trust me, that’s the whole thing that drives me. That’s the whole reason for all of this. What I was trying to drive home, is that the solution to Christiany’s problems are found in the Bible. Throw the Bible at them, they love it, they love Jesus, throw Jesus at them.
And no, calling it “God” does not cheapen it if you have the right notion of God. God is huge. No, bigger than that. God has been destroyed by fundamentalism and modernism, and you see the destroyed version of God, not the majestic pre-modernistic core-of-humanity version of God. That is why you cannot appreciate the appreciation that is found in thanking “God” for gifts. Given the right context, that language is truly beautiful. As an atheist, you just don’t have that context, and you probably cannot understand that context unless you try to “feel” it.
*Sigh*.
OK, call it stress. I will be boring once again. The passion and emotion I have dumped today might just have been remaining suppressed emotion from the last number of years, where yes, my life was hell. And now I’m going to mention Jesus again, because that was the whole point: I was only liberated from the hell of fundamentalism, because I went looking for Jesus. This is the whole point of all these blog posts, to point out that all you need to do to show the fundamentalist that he isn’t to be bound by fundamentalism, is to show him the historical Jesus.
Marcus Borg. Brian McLaren. Rob Bell. Sell those as well as God Delusion sold, and you have made progress. Throw God Delusion at the moderate that is teetering on the edge and loves his God, and you create another fundamentalist. You inadvertently create hell, in the very process of trying to save the guy. Irony. Human nature.
I will continue exploring Shofar. I can do so coldly and rationally as well, but it will be harder to reach the masses, for they prefer their message with passion. And that’s fine, because humanity is passion. Rationality seems to threaten that, so they rather stick with the passion, cause it feels good. It makes you human. Show them how to combine passion with rationalism. Show them the sacred that can be found outside the supernatural.
Embrace, and extend. Syncretism. God is syncretism. Give them God.
Cool, calm and collected is the option then. Analyse each sermon. Point out exactly what the good is that is being hijacked to promote the bad. Point out the dangerous parts. Point out the alternative.
“Jesus drives out demons.”
“OK, sure. Why have I never seen demons though?”
“Because you don’t believe in them, and the western world is scientific.”
“OK, fine, can we not therefore use science to drive out demons? Not saying Jesus can’t do it. Just saying science seems good as well. You can even use science in Jesus’ name if you want. Though in certain circles, realise that Jesus *is* compassion, by showing them compassion, you can live Jesus, and you might not even have to *say* Jesus, as to some, it is a swear word.”
Comprehendez? Embrace and extend. See the good in the Bible, show them the good in the Bible, show them how to combine science with that. God is bigger than just the little book they have forced God into.
That was the point.
Oh well. Cool, calm and collected might be the better way to do this thing. Use rationality then. Become a local “rational response squad member”, except, understanding the context and the value of what they have, show them how to keep that and science.
Repeating myself: show them science is compatible with the good they see in the Bible. Simple.
16 Hugo // Nov 29, 2007 at 2:16 am
And then, yes, help the moderates fix their meme complex that they will no longer be prone to fundamentalism. Basically, use the church to teach science. A church is really just a social network, a community, exploring the meaning of life together.
If your meaning in life is compassion or love, and that is your “God”, then worshipping “God” becomes the act of expressing love and compassion. The concept of “God” becomes beautiful, if you can destigmatise it correctly.
17 Hugo // Nov 29, 2007 at 2:18 am
Heh, no reason why I can’t still have my fun. God is fun. Fun is God. God is humour. We need to laugh about life. We need to read Douglas Adams.
18 Hugo // Nov 29, 2007 at 2:49 am
Here’s another cute one: they love “praying in tongues”. Read the verse after this, and it shows that if “praying in tongues” is supposed to be a sign, so is being bitten by venomous snakes and surviving it.
So why not challenge the pentecostal’s God, in a classic showdown between two Gods. My God is Bigger than Your God. And I can prove it. We shall be bitten by snakes. You up for it?
My God is big enough to include science. So I may use the anti-venom. Is that not a sign that “science is from God”? Now don’t be offended, remember, pre-modernistic sense of wonder for the mysteries of the Universe. That’s just saying “science is a miracle, science is a wonder, science is magic”. Calling Science a part of God, to the theist, is to sing the praises of science, not to diminish it.
19 Hugo // Nov 29, 2007 at 2:51 am
I’m just sad that modernism stops us from dealing in hyperbole. The prophets in the Old Testament? Beautiful literature. For they wielded God like a whip, and preached in hyperbole. That’s the stuff that speaks to crowds. Use that stuff to tell people to think for themselves? Or is the power just too dangerous?
The Zeroth commandment: Think.
20 Stop Zion // Apr 3, 2008 at 1:24 pm
We as Christians have been fooled over and over again by these Jews who are occupying stolen land from the Palestinians that they are murdering everyday by the hundreds of thousands. All jews should be expelled from every country in the world. I pray that God will help these jews of the world to realize what they are doing is anti-Christ. For all who still are not familiar with this, please do some research on Zionism at: http://www.realjewnews.com, http://www.prothink.org, http://www.EricHufschmid.net,
http://www.iamthewitness.com/ etc?
God Bless
21 Negate // Apr 3, 2008 at 1:49 pm
whahahahaha ai, some people
22 Kenneth Oberlander // Apr 3, 2008 at 5:14 pm
I find your equation of atheism to fundamentalism a bit disturbing. A dictionary description of a fundamentalist would be someone who holds onto beliefs no matter what the evidence. How can a lack of belief in something be described in those terms?
23 Hugo // Apr 3, 2008 at 7:39 pm
*cringe*
Hehe, go on, dig up the old posts I cringe about. This was written… 27 November. Hey-day of thesis stress, and leading up to that weekend. Madness…
Do take posts around this time with a pinch of salt. I’m leaving the worst of them up here as a humbling exercise. I don’t like the idea of simply deleting the worst of them. White washing.
What do you think? Maybe I should just add some disclaimers to them? The question is then, to which of them?
24 Ben-Jammin' // Apr 3, 2008 at 10:58 pm
A decent scienceblogs summary of a study on the effects of outing (gays, in particular):
http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2008/04/outing_admired_gays_and_lesbia.php
I would think the effect would hold equally well for atheists.
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